Episode 4: Joey Albertson
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[00:00:00]
Joey Albertson: I do not have a formal background in accounting. I am not a CPA. I don't have a bachelor's degree.
I don't have any business being in business, And for a long time, that created a lot of imposter syndrome. Now I kind of consider it my superpower. I used to have a lot of imposter syndrome about not being an accountant, it was when I realized how many people were shamed by their accountant that I was like, "I'm glad that I never went through whatever it is that they went through that made them wanna shame people," because why, why do we need to do that?
Kaelynn Priest: I'm pretty confident you are gonna go crazy for this week's episode. I'm bringing on Joey Albertson, who is the founder and CEO of The Profitability Project. She is now 10 women strong on her team, and the service they offer, Joey would call fractional CFO services, which I'll be totally honest, the first time I met Joey, I was like, [00:01:00] "I don't know what that means."
So basically, a fractional CFO is a chief finance officer for your business, but the word fractional comes in, meaning that you bring her team on as, like, a basically contractor in your business. So her clients are usually, you know, in the half a million-plus dollar range, but she has so much financial expertise that you're gonna hear from her.
It's part of the reason why I love the way that she talks about money, because she's a woman, she's also a business owner and a team manager, and also a woman of faith. So you're gonna hear all about her unique perspectives on money as a person who looks behind the scenes in businesses' financial books for a living
I also just really appreciate Joey's warm approach to thinking about money and the loving, charitable way that she thinks about money I find very refreshing for myself, and I am pretty confident you're gonna feel the same way too. Here's [00:02:00] Joey
Kaelynn Priest: I think it's really important before we dive in that people understand that you, your business is, like, not a small thing. So with that intro, tell us about The Profitability Project and your team of how many women now?
Joey Albertson: As of yesterday, 10.
Kaelynn Priest: Yesterday, 10
Joey Albertson: Yes. We started a new girl yesterday
Kaelynn Priest: That's wild and just, like, growing every month
Joey Albertson: It is truly insane right now. And it's fun and it's crazy. It's very scary and vulnerable. When I was listening to your episode about the pivot, your pivot, I was like, man, this is so fun to listen to right now because I feel like I'm on the other side. I'm not in the painful stage.
I'm in the, like, thank goodness I pivoted celebration for sure, which makes my anxiety go, "Okay, so then there must be another ," you know? I'm like, things are happening really well. But yeah, we are in a [00:03:00] really fun season. We have 10 of us. And I've been in business for five years. Stage one was the first three years where I was, like, me and Mackenzie, my co-founder, who's also my best friend were just kind of doing it.
And, like, that was like, it felt like our degree in entrepreneurship, like we were just learning. That was all we were doing. And then we rebranded to The Profitability Project in 2024, and that kind of kicked off stage number two, which is where I learned that I needed to actually, like, branch out into the world and make friends and have a support system and, like, surround myself with other people who were doing this, which was also really fun.
I learned a lot during that season. And then I feel like stage three kicked off about a year ago, which is when we started hiring our current team. So before April of 2025, it was Mackenzie, myself, and Becca, and it was the three of us.
Kaelynn Priest: cow[00:04:00]
Joey Albertson: And so in the last 14 months, I've hired seven people, which is just crazy.
Kaelynn Priest: That's a lot
Joey Albertson: S- I think half of those in the last six months.
Like, we've made a hire every month. And two of them are CPAs. They're, like, legit, accounting professionals work for me. It is so crazy. It's so crazy to say out loud. It feels really awesome. None of it feels like me. My business has been the most interesting, humbling, and testimony-building experience of my life,
Kaelynn Priest: Mm.
Joey Albertson: 100%.
Kaelynn Priest: Tell us more
Joey Albertson: It's just been a really great way for
I would say for me to get to know God, but it really does feel like he kind of reached down and is like, "I wanna get to know you." If that makes sense. Like, it doesn't feel like I was like, "Hey, I'm gonna sit down and get to know God." But it does feel [00:05:00] like that's what ended up happening because he put things in my path to, like, allow me to get to know him.
Including the ups and the downs, probably especially the downs. And I don't know, outside of maybe motherhood that I've had an experience where I have just almost been forced to be like, "I'm not in control." As a type A eldest daughter, I really love control, and so my whole life it's like if I have a decision to make, if I have uncertainty in my life, I just white-knuckle it and I make a choice and I stick to that choice.
You and Tess were talking about on your episode, like, we make decisions fast almost to a fault. I, I'm in that club, too. I'm like, I don't like uncertainty, so I will just pick control. Even if it crashes and burns, at least I have control. In business there's so much that you cannot control, and [00:06:00] so many days where I'm literally on my knees like, "I don't know.
I don't know." And even right before this episode I just was watching this TikTok of a business owner who I've never seen before. Her name's Barbie, and that's what I remember about her. And she was like, "I'm posting because God told me to post that I'm not gonna make payroll on Thursday, and I have no solutions other than He told me to follow Him.
And so I went and listened to a podcast, and that podcast talked about how we need to highlight more than just the highlight reel. So I'm getting on TikTok to tell you that I'm not gonna make payroll on Thursday." And she goes on to, like, talk about how she got there and all the things. And it has, like, over half a million likes and saves and, and I'm just like, there is something about business that puts us on the edge like that.
Like, it just really... Like shedding or whatever you wanna call it, you know. I've had so many moments where I feel like I've just been broken down, down, down, but then built back [00:07:00] up, up, up, and it's so much better than it was before. So that, I love my business for that reason. I think it's like a child in so many ways for that reason, because it's made me a different person.
And it's through my, I would say through my relationship with God, for sure
Kaelynn Priest: I love the way you articulated that, and anyone who's followed me for more than five minutes has probably heard me say that, like, owning a... before you start a business, you're like, "Oh, this'll be so fun. It's gonna be so great. I'll just make all the money." And then you get at least a year into it, and you're like, "Why did I do this? This is like And nobody really talks about that, and it... They, like, really actually don't talk about it. Like,
Like n- nobody's gonna tell you that business... No one's gonna get on TikTok and say, "I'm not making payroll this Thursday," except for Barbie, our dear friend Barbie.
Joey Albertson: Our dear friend Barbie, who we need to, like, get on the show because
Kaelynn Priest: for real
Joey Albertson: I don't LDS, but dang. Like, I just... [00:08:00] Yeah, I love it. But maybe we should. Like, can this podcast today be that? Because even though I'm in a season of all this success, if I have led anybody to believe that I have it all together today I don't.
Put it on record that I... Like, even you saying, "This is not a small thing," I'm like, when did that become true?
It is true, and I'm very proud of it. And I'm trying to, like, be better about not undermining the fact that it is amazing what we've been able to do. At the same time, we do not have it all together.
It's held together with duct tape.
Kaelynn Priest: Mm.
Joey Albertson: And I don't even remember when I transitioned from knowing literally nothing to knowing just this much, you know, just barely anything,
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah
Joey Albertson: Which is where I am now, so
Kaelynn Priest: Can you tell us, I really like thinking about the guests that I bring on. Like, what's a different angle of business that you are very familiar with that someone listening to this is gonna be like, "Oh my goodness, thank heavens that I'm not the only one"? [00:09:00] angle that I'm thinking about for you is running a team, a team of employees. Like, there's a lot of really successful businesses out there that don't have employees, and there's teams like, there's businesses like yours that wouldn't work without a team. So you tell us a little bit about what you've learned or what's built your testimony in the Savior or in Heavenly Father related to running and managing a team, hiring women
Joey Albertson: Yes. One experience comes to mind very clearly that's gonna paint me in a much better light than is reality, so just bear with me here. But, like, one of the things about my story that I love is that I do not have a formal background in accounting. I am not a CPA. I don't have a bachelor's degree.
I don't have any business being in business, And for a long time, that created a lot of imposter syndrome. Now I [00:10:00] kind of consider it my superpower. That's a story for another day. But one of the main foundations when Kenzie and I built this business were, one, that we would give other, particularly women, opportunities to develop skills despite the fact that they maybe on paper didn't have the right credentials.
Because Kenzie and I are very good at, like, getting it done, right? We are problem-solvers to a fault. The reason Kenzie came over is not just because she's my best friend. She and I worked together at a different company, and I was like, "There's no way I could do what she does. She's a powerhouse." And neither of us really have a formal education that would make us the right candidate on paper, and yet we kick butt, you know?
Especially together. And so we wanted to give other women that same opportunity. So that was part of it. We knew we always wanted a team for that [00:11:00] reason. Additionally, one of the biggest things that I wanted in this business was a place where women could work and raise a family and not have to choose.
Because I love being a mother. I could not do it full time. I would, uh, have worse mental health. It would probably not be the best for me. It's just not the right choice for me. And I found that I'm a better mom because I work, and I wanted other women to be able to make that choice too, where they could kind of have it all.
Kaelynn Priest: Hmm.
Joey Albertson: And so it was always, it was always in the cards for us. That was a big reason of why we started this business, other than obviously financially providing for our own families, and we both wanted to work. So I remember one time this was actually before our current team. A few years ago, we actually built up a team of contractors.
There were probably, I don't know, seven of us at the time before we burned it down, which is also another podcast episode. But we were debating on, on, No, let me think about this. I was [00:12:00] at dinner, I was at Chili's with a group of women, and one of the women was sitting there, and she's like, "Man, I'm just in one of those phases where, like, I've done all I can do."
You know? She was talking about how her husband has his job, and he's working as many hours as he can possibly work without sacrificing a ton of time with his kids. She was taking care of her mother-in-law, and her mother-in-law was living with them, not paying any rent, and had a lot of medical needs.
She was pregnant with her third baby, which was kind of an accident. And as many moms can relate to, like, the toss-up of getting a job but then hiring a nanny is not worth it
a lot of times. And so she was like, "I could go back to work, but, like, what am I gonna do? It's not really gonna make a difference.
And then also, like, I'm pregnant. Who's gonna hire me? And I don't know that I wanna give that up. I, I think I wanna homeschool my kids. I think I wanna, like, be there for them," whatever. And I remember driving home that night, and I will never forget being [00:13:00] at the light by my house and just praying, like, "Heavenly Father, I, I wanna help people.
I'm really good at helping people when you give me a task. I am not good at helping people when they're across the street and suffering in silence. I'm not the type to bring a meal. I'm not the type to, like, see people's needs and anticipate." But I'm like, "If you give me a task, like, if you tell me how I can help her, I will help her.
So to me, that feels like let's get her a job here. Like, I think I could find something for her to do. She could stay home with her kids, have just a little bit of extra income. She can work when she wants. You know, it can just be a little bit on the side." And we probably signed three clients the next day.
Like, just... And I didn't have them on my calendar, and you know, it wasn't in the projections, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just knew that that was only happening because I needed to hire her, and I did, and it worked out really perfect for both of us. And that just kind of... [00:14:00] I think that just highlights, like, my idea of my team, especially from the get-go of, like, I've only ever wanted to help people, and I view my business as one of the only ways that I am capable and maybe willing to help people, whether it's with their business or, you know, providing them a job opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise.
Now it feels a little different 'cause now I'm hiring people that are way smarter than me, which is a humbling experience and also the coolest. And that has been such a learning experience for me. And so it does feel like a different kind of phase of team members now that comes with its own- Fun and learning and blessings and all the things, and they push me to be a much better human being.
I don't know. Did that answer your question at all?
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah. Yeah, it [00:15:00] did. There was a question that I wanted to ask you specifically. So I feel like you have such a unique perspective on this, where you are a business owner, and your nose is in other people's books, financial books a lot of the time. I know it's not literally you, 'cause you have a team now. But I do wanna hear... I, I was thinking to myself, it's like, it's almost like you looking in people's underwear drawer all
Joey Albertson: Totally
Kaelynn Priest: because that's super vulnerable. And we could have an entire podcast series
on money mindset and thoughts and emotions about money and stress and... note, Joey has a book coming. More details on that coming soon. But can you give us, like, How has your perspective... I don't know if it's right to say if it's, if your perspective has changed, but being a business owner [00:16:00] and also looking at businesses' books all day, where I've heard you say, like, some of the businesses you would not expect have the most zeros, and the ones that you would think do have the fewest. What has been your takeaway of- of like the meaning that money gives to entrepreneurs, where they either are building themselves up or punching themselves in the face because they feel
so much guilt about money
Joey Albertson: Yeah. I have so many thoughts and could seriously write a book about this. LOL. I, I, I have so many thoughts. The first one I, I think that's important is it's been such a blessing for me because it has inspired a lot of confidence that I don't think I would have had otherwise in [00:17:00] myself.
And the reason I say that is because, like you said the businesses that intimidated me before I started this don't feel so intimidating now because I've seen similar businesses or sometimes even those businesses and seen their financial situation and I'm like, "Wait a minute, this isn't any better than this business over here."
In fact, sometimes it's worse, you know? There are companies that y- by definition we would consider huge monster companies that are falling apart at the seams financially. That's not always true, of course, but it is pretty crazy, like- Once you kind of take a peek under the hood, you're like, "Wait a minute, this has its own problems, too."
And, and then there's baby businesses that I am like, "You bring in so much money." Like, their revenue is low, but you're keeping 50% [00:18:00] of it, and 50% of a low number is higher than 10% of this high number. It's just wild. And so what it did for me was kind of took away the intimidation. I've really learned that every business has its problems.
So even though my business most days feels like it's duct-taped together, I'm like, "So is everybody else.
Kaelynn Priest: 嗯。
Joey Albertson: else is also duct-taped together." Additionally, this whole idea of, like, a race to the top, a race to one million, five million, 10 million, half a million, whatever, is a load. Because I would not trade my life for the founders and CEOs of the half-million companies if it meant that I'd have to sacrifice the things that they've had to sacrifice.
It's just not worth it. And that's my personal decision, and if one day I have a half-million-dollar company, like, great, if it means that I kept all my same values and all of my same goals and, you know, boundaries on my time, and things like that. But it just [00:19:00] kind of took ... I, I often refer to them as, like, the rose-colored glasses of, like, this idea, or, like, beer goggles almost, you know, like, this idea that is, like, really beautiful and has it all together, and this founder has it all together.
And then I get to know these founders, and I'm like, "You're just as scared. You're just as vulnerable. You are just as intimidated as the companies that I'm ... as me. You know, as me as a founder." I'm like, "You have, you experience the same emotion about money. You don't wanna open up your books. You buy a fancy car because you care more about appearances than all the things," right?
And so it just popped this bubble of what I thought the world was, and it made it so that I could just look at my business and be like, "We're doing great. We're doing great all the time. There's also things to fix. There's also things I wanna do better, and also we're doing great." Like, it's just different problems for different people.
But there ... I don't know a single business, [00:20:00] I have never worked with a single business that I'm like, "Wow, they've really made it." There's no such thing. It's just an illusion. So, that's been really nice for me when it comes to my own business, to just be able to be like, "Whatever, these problems are just different problems.
They're not ... it doesn't mean I'm a failure. It doesn't mean that my business will never make it. It doesn't mean any of the things that I like to pretend that it means."
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah. And if you had to quantify, like, how many business owners, you've rubbed shoulders with
Joey Albertson: Oh gosh. Probably between 2 and 300 over the years. Yeah. And one of my first clients, we've had quite a few clients that are in the multiple millions, five to 10 maybe a 20 in there at some point. And then there's also businesses that their brand name is huge, and so I assumed their revenue [00:21:00] was huge, and then I was like, "You're not...
What? Like, what do you mean you're only doing X number of dollars?" Which also just kind of made me realize, like, brand, just because they're the most well-known brand does not mean they're bringing in the most dollars. It certainly doesn't mean they're making the most money. You never know how much money they owe investors.
You never know the stress of a board of directors. You never know how many years they had to fundraise. I mean, fundraising, you guys, whole
a a quiet battle for sure. So, if anybody, yeah, any business owner listening, like the comparison game is all in your head. It's all in your head, and it's so worth it to get rid of it because you actually don't know until you know, and I think you'd be surprised once you find out what the reality is for everybody
Kaelynn Priest: I, I feel like it's, you know, like I could say something like that, [00:22:00] but I feel so much like validity... Like, what's the word I'm looking for? It sounds so real coming from you, 'cause you have,
been behind the scenes of so many businesses, and I feel like there's, like, some weight to you saying that. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is, you and I have talked about this separately, but a quick, maybe not quick, a conversation about debt as a business owner. Because I, especially for an e-commerce business, I don't even know if it's unique to... I think it is a little bit unusual, a little bit unique to e-commerce, that I don't wanna say that debt is, like, the lifeblood of the business, but it is very important and
useful, especially if you're an e-commerce business and you're turning over inventory quickly.
I did not understand that until I was in the middle of running an e-commerce business, and I've never to this day heard anybody talk about it, especially from an LDS lens,
where the [00:23:00] way that I was raised was so anti-debt. We only go into debt for these certain things and for nothing else, with, like, no exceptions.
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: remember when I was really praying about our next, the next investment that I needed to make, it was... I, I felt like this was a really good thing, and I was like, "Am I, am I crazy?" Like, I've been taught that debt is not a good thing. I feel almost as if I feel so peaceful about this investment, it almost feels like it would be irresponsible to not
Joey Albertson: Yep
Kaelynn Priest: Which to clarify, I was gonna be putting it on credit cards. We took out a small loan to fund our first order of wooden baby gyms.
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: Our first order was 1000. That was the minimum order quantity. We couldn't go less than that. We'd only sold 650 in the 18 months lifetime of the business, so it was a big leap, but I felt pretty good about it.
Anyway, prefacing all of that because I want you, from your perspective, give us a little bit of insight about responsible [00:24:00] debt. And maybe we can soften some of the edges of that a little bit for a girl who's like that listening, who's facing a decision where she's like, "I kinda really feel like this is what I should do, but I'm feeling weird ick about it."
Joey Albertson: Yeah it's so true. I love that you shared your experience, because even to this day call it church culture, call it Dave Ramsey PTSD, 'cause I have a problem with that, which we've also talked about separately.
Kaelynn Priest: Yes
Joey Albertson: to be clear, I, I talk poorly about Dave Ramsey a lot. There are a lot of good principles, okay?
I, I can see good and bad there. But debt was absolutely out of the picture for me for a very long time, and it did... One of the things I talk about, one of the themes that I talk about is, for whatever reason, finance reflects, likes, likes to reflect on our morality. Why is it that our marketing never [00:25:00] reflects on our morality, or our operations never reflect on our morality?
But finance is always about who we are. Are we good or are we bad? And we m- I am of the mindset that we need to get rid of that. That is a- another just load of garbage that we've been taught. That said, being responsible financially is an important part of living your life, and I think it's one of those things that the church speaks about and kind of has regulations about, because money can make you do immoral things, or the lack of money can make you do immoral things.
The decisions about money themselves are not moral or immoral, in my opinion unless it has to, it's related to another issue, right? So the idea of going into debt is not, again, church according to Joey, but to me, that is not an immoral decision. [00:26:00] Now, if you're using that debt to gamble, to do some shady stuff, to, I don't know, I, I couldn't even think of anything right now, right?
That's a different conversation, but the idea of debt itself feels immoral to us as church members. Again, as an accountant, uh, I was very much taught, like, debt is evil. It is bad. And at its core, it's not. It can result in that if you let it get out of control. But debt itself is not. So I think kind of just removing the morality of that decision to some degree is a really important step i- as a business owner, because you're right.
Sometimes that's the right call. Healthy debt is a lever. It's a tool. I encourage debt all the time. It's just a matter of managing that debt that, that makes it fiscally responsible or fiscally irresponsible. The actual going into debt is not either one.
Kaelynn Priest: [00:27:00] Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: So I think kind of removing all the shame or like- Like feeling behind it is a really good important step, because then you as a business owner can do exactly what you just described, Kaylin, and you can decide for yourself or decide through prayer if this is the right step and if this is the right amount.
Because it is true that using debt incorrectly can get you into bad situations. But when you have all that feeling around it, it can be really hard to make a really clear decision.
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah
Joey Albertson: So that's kind of my, you know, for, for LDS business owners especially, that's kind of my go-to is like recognize that it's not a bad thing.
In fact, if your business is on a journey to bless people, including your family by the way that is a righteous desire, and a lot of times businesses need debt to grow. And so if you can remove all of the, the [00:28:00] shame around it, then next step is praying about it and determining if it's right for you.
And if you get the answer like Kaylin got, then know that that is absolutely okay, and just continue to pray about how to utilize that debt and be very careful. But, but yeah, that, that can be and often is the right choice
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah
Joey Albertson: from an accounting perspective, for sure.
Kaelynn Priest: I love that you even just said the phrase healthy debt. I'm like, "If someone would've told me that was even a thing..."
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: Because I'm also thinking about little, like, 26-year-old Kaelyn, who didn't even own a house yet, and had... was about to pay more money for inventory than I'd even paid for a car, or like, to me, it felt like so much money at the time.
And like, proud of the choice I made. The only thing I'm a little bit sad about is how much, like, I felt really bad about that for a long time.
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: dang, it would've been cool if I was just like, 'This [00:29:00] is awesome. How
cool that I have this resource
Joey Albertson: Yep
Kaelynn Priest: that I can utilize that makes it so that instead of scaling..." using my hands. "... scaling at a slow rate, I can scale much faster that
I can y- invest in more inventory the next time," right?
Joey Albertson: Yes
Kaelynn Priest: I think there's something important to say, too, about if you are at, like, if your business is at the phase where you are ready to bring on debt, this might also be a really good time to find a financial manager, which, side note,
Joey Albertson: So I do that.
Kaelynn Priest: was not, like, an intentional, like, plug for Joey. I'm just, like, genuinely saying that. Like, you should probably get someone on your team who knows, who can help you watch and observe. I told Joey this. I, when I met Joey, actually, she was like, "Oh, I'm a fractional financial manager for companies." And I was like, had just sold Poppy Seed Play, and I was like, "Dang [00:30:00] it, I wish I would've had someone like you," because it was just me and my Google searching.
I didn't even have ChatGPT to ask, "Is
this the dumbest thing I've ever done, or is this really smart?"
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: forecast sales, which is really important if you're an e-commerce business. Anyway, we're, I'm kinda getting into the weeds of, like, e-commerce stuff, but I'm just really grateful to be able a voice to that, because I've never heard anybody talk about it.
And even if you don't run an e-commerce business, maybe the debt is personal debt, but
is still a really good choice. I was wondering if you could speak to that, too.
Joey Albertson: Yeah, I'll give you an example. When we decided to rebrand to TPP we were called Bookflow, and then we rebranded to The Profitability Project. In order to do what we wanted to do, we would need to drop our biggest client, who had kind of been the client that got us to quit our jobs, and, like, we'd been with them for years.
But they [00:31:00] were absorbing all of our resources, and it was a great experience. I learned so much, but I knew and I could just kind of feel in my heart like it was time to pivot. And they really needed, like, an in-house team. We're talking, like, five companies each doing five million. So, like, between Kenzie, Becca, and I, we were swamped.
Additionally, it didn't offer the flexibility that I had set out to get for this business. I, I knew I needed to pivot out when I was actually visiting my mother-in-law, which is where I am now, and it was my, my husband's grandpa had passed away, and it was his funeral. And I just couldn't make it to all the events because I had meetings and things like that, and I was like, "You know, if I'm gonna sacrifice as much as I'm sacrificing as a business owner then I need to have the rewards of being able to pick my own schedule or miss meetings or whatever."
And so I knew it was time to pivot. And so in order to do that and develop our course, which, [00:32:00] PS, talk about a pivot. I mean, that course is sitting on a shelf somewhere doing nothing. But I had to invest in that. And, I mean, it was, like, crazy time. But Kenzie and I we actually just talked about this on our podcast the other day because I had forgotten this.
But we, we sat down together and I was like, "Kenzie, I feel like this is the move, and also I have no idea how it's gonna turn out. And talk about an financially irresponsible choice to make." Like, the numbers were not going to add up. The math was not mathing. I don't know how we're gonna make payroll, and also I just feel like that this is the move.
And she ... I mean, go into business with your best friend, if nothing else, like, this was such a core Kenzie moment. She was just like, "We're gonna do what we need to do. Like, it's gonna work out." And so we did it, and it worked out. We did have to get a line of credit, and we used it To its full capacity, and I am still [00:33:00] paying it off, and I never talk about it, but again, in, you know, the the spirit of vulnerability was it financially responsible?
Probably not. Would I be here doing what I'm doing today if I hadn't done it? No. So service-based business, sh- you know, my dad would just die if he knew any of this because he's like, "You bootstrap until you die," you know, "And you work your fingers to the bone." But I think there's a higher calling here for me in the sense that, like, I needed to be able to pay the bills and also be a mom.
I needed to be able to shed all of that and rebuild this brand so that I
could bring on the n- 10 team members that we've got now which by the way, 10 team members means 21, 20 plus one in progress babies between us, [00:34:00] and to me, that's such a huge successive metric, like a success metric of how many mouths we feed.
Like, I love that we support that many families and I love bragging about that. And I couldn't have done that if I didn't. So again, as I kind of sometimes have to take my CFO hat on and put on my, I don't know, child of God hat maybe we'll call it, like, I trust you and I trust that the decisions that you're having me make are the right ones, and I, still paying off that loan today would absolutely say we made the right choice and I'm glad we did it.
Kaelynn Priest: Mm, mm. Okay, so that reminded me of a story. You and I have also kind of talked about this a little bit. So, s- so one thing that you should know if you're listening about the Profitability Project is that something that Joey says is, "We're not your dad's CFO. we're not your dad's accountant." Because I literally had experiences where my accountant kind of, like, made me feel shame about some of my business [00:35:00] decisions. like you just said, I'm like, to this date, I would do that a million times over. And one example is when we we bought our first house, was a t- which was a town home, and it was just a little bit farther out of town than we wanted to be. We wanted to be a little bit closer friends and family, and this was pre-COVID. So this is when housing prices were normal, as a side note.
Joey Albertson: Yeah
Kaelynn Priest: um, ended up finding the house that I'm sitting in right now. We found the lot. We knew we wanted to move. Our family was growing. The town home was not fitting our needs. anyway, long story short, we, like, made a, what some may say was a rash, rushed decision to move into this house and sign on it, didn't know that if you a house in shorter than two years, you pay capital gains taxes. And so we went back to our accountant, let him know, "Hey, we're moving. We're putting in money, putting down money on this lot." [00:36:00] we had to sell our town home within 60 days of signing that contract, so it was like, "Mom and Dad, we're moving back into your basement with our two kids now. That cool with you guys?"
Anyway, but I literally remember the conversation with our accountant where he was like, "That was probably the dumbest thing you guys could have done," like, basically point blank. And I was like, "I strongly disagree with you." Like, if... And now in hindsight looking back, if we hadn't invested in that exact literal month, it was immediately after that that prices started to spike with COVID.
Like, Nate and I are still like, "I don't know if we could have gotten into this house if we'd waited another month." So this is something that I really appreciate that you bring to this conversation as, first of all, a woman
in the accounting industry, and also as a woman of faith.
I love hearing you talk about how sometimes these financial decisions do make sense on paper from a, like, CFO, like we're looking at [00:37:00] the, we're looking at the balance sheet.
We're looking at the income statement. Yes, all the dots are lined up. And also, sometimes they don't, and
sometimes these are decisions that have to be made with faith.
It sometimes feels like you're jumping off a cliff, and that is just sometimes the reality of it, but I love that just by the fact that you're a woman and that you're a woman of faith softens some of those, like, ouchie, shameful edges that a lot of us have heard
in some of these financial conversations
Joey Albertson: And I'm on a huge, overwhelming mission to, it started as this joke of, like, not your dad's accountant, which is true. I... But as I've, you know, kind of spent time and, and tried to get really clear on, like, our differentiator and why do people come to us and, you know, what is it I think that those [00:38:00] qualities have served me very well in the sense that, Yeah, I'm an entrepreneur.
I'm a mom. I have my own moments where it didn't make sense on paper. I could list a thousand of them. And, and also I have a financial background, and also I happen to be good with a spreadsheet, you know? And also I know how to tell you if your perch- your profit margin sucks. But this shame and morality that we've assigned to money and, and in fairness, you know, in the Book of Mormon, there are plenty of examples of, you know, riches creating immoral situations.
And so again, I think, like, it's easy for us, and not just Christians, I mean everybody to assign money to morality. And I just, I think that there's a fine line there that we need to just be aware of. So, so I'm on a huge mission to, like, stop the shame around money. [00:39:00] Let's just have a freaking conversation.
When we're having shame about money... And why accountants feel the need to shame people and assign morality to money themselves is beyond me. When I talked about how I used to have a lot of imposter syndrome about not being an accountant, it was when I realized how many people were shamed by their accountant that I was like, "I'm glad that I never went through whatever it is that they went through that made them wanna shame people," because why, why do we need to do that?
Shame actually makes you make worse decisions. Shame puts your body in fight or flight. It increases your cortisol. It literally puts a fog on your brain, basically. And so then you can't make good decisions even if you wanted to. And so why on earth, if I am trying to make you make a better financial decision, would I introduce that crap?
wouldn't. And to your point, God doesn't work on pen and paper. God does not work in one plus one equals two.
Kaelynn Priest: Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: that's a hard concept for me as [00:40:00] an accountant to get on board with, and it's also one of the coolest things I've ever seen, because there are so many times in my life and in my work and in my business that I have seen one plus one equals three.
I mean, it is just the most insane thing. And in fact, can I share, can I share a, an experience that we had just barely? So again, in the spirit of vulnerability, in case you think that I'm a millionaire because I have a team of 10, I am not. There are many months that feel like we're living paycheck to paycheck, and I have experienced a lot of emotion around that because this is what I do for a living.
You would think that I'd be the expert in it. I've come to terms with the fact that I am very good with money- Quote, I actually hate that term, but like what people would say is good with money. I still have a long way to go, and also this is just one of those seasons in my life, and I'm learning and improving, and God is a god of [00:41:00] progress, not perfection.
So I've come to terms with the fact that some months I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and that's okay. So we are needing to buy a car next month, like in the next three weeks, and there's just not a down payment available for this car. And by the way, speaking of Dave Ramsey PTSD, like, yes, I'm gonna be financing a car.
Holy cow. Can you believe it? I know. Like 20-year-old me would be so ashamed, Caitlin, you don't even know. It's okay. I'm a recovering addict. It's okay. Anyway, and but there's not even a down payment. Like, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what we're gonna do. Well, I'm also in the process of trying to finish my basement to help somebody out, and we were working to get like a home equity line of credit, and kind of going through that process, which is just a pain.
[00:42:00] And they were like, "Hey," by the way, I'm... Like all my secrets are coming out, just in case you were wondering. Just because I am so passionate about people sharing these things, I think it's important. But I submitted my taxes. They're like, "Your 2024 taxes are wrong." And I'm like, "What do you mean?" And they're like, "You didn't...
you have a K1, but you didn't file it with your personal taxes." You guys, I literally own a tax and accounting firm. I did not in 2024 feel the need for our CPAs to do my personal taxes. They did our business taxes, but I said, "I can do this myself." I mean, you guys, this is just so embarrassing. But I didn't do it, and so then I said, "Okay, clearly I couldn't do it myself."
This is, like, last month that I figured this out. So I went to our tax team and I was like, "You guys, I'm so sorry, and this is so embarrassing, but could you maybe amend my taxes for 2024 for me?" And they said sure. And I'm getting a massive refund, and it's gonna pay for a car.
Kaelynn Priest: way
Joey Albertson: And just [00:43:00] a week ago, I was on my knees and was just like, "Heavenly Father, I, again, feel like I've done all I can do."
I'm also in a position where I really wanna help somebody and finish our basement, and be able to, like, offer something to this person that is, means a lot to me, and, you know, I just... It feels like all I can do at this stage in my life to help. And I'm like, I just, it, the math isn't mathing. And it is a drop in the bucket.
It doesn't mean all the problems are solved, and man, I really should get my crap together financially, apparently. But, like, it was just such a great experience because... And I could literally share thousand tithing blessing experiences. I, my team knows me to joke around and say tithing blessings are real.
Like, I say that on team meetings all the time because tithing blessings are so real. I experience those miracles every [00:44:00] day. And also it was very humbling to be like, yeah, I really belong in the CFO world, not the tax world, and I'm really glad I hired people smarter than me to do the tax things for my clients.
Luckily, I don't touch that part, so if you're concerned about our ability to file taxes, don't worry, I won't be touching anybody's taxes ever again, including my own. But yeah, isn't that crazy? Like a year and a half ago, m- I mean, the taxes are filed, so it's not like I was getting penalties or letters.
Uh, like, it wasn't even on my docket. It was because we were going through a disapproval process that I realized I needed to amend them, and I got money back. And the timing could not have been more perfect in order for us to, like, be able to buy a car for our family, which again is, like, not a ba- It's not like I'm out here trying to, you know, get a Gucci purse, which if that's what you want, like, good for you.
Go work for it. I'm just trying to pay the bills, you know? So yeah, I, I have many feelings like that, but I truly believe that [00:45:00] money can, debt can, finances can, whatever, whatever, you know, position can be a tool to bless people's lives. I, I have to say one other thing. I'm really sorry you got me on a chatty day, but you've been talking a lot on your page about the idea that, like, making money is a righteous desire and can be a righteous desire, and I could not support that message more.
I Named my company The Profitability Project because I am on a mission to help more women make more money. And making money just to make ends meet, just to pay for the down payment, is a big blessing, but that doesn't mean that's all it has to be. When I started this business, I remember I wanted to make enough money that I could pay for someone's gas whenever I felt like it.
Kaelynn Priest: Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: And now I get to, like, pay someone's salary, you know? [00:46:00] And I get to do a lot of things to help people. I don't always do it like I should, but I'm a big believer that, like, making money doesn't just have to be this selfish, immoral thing. You can make money to bless your family, and that counts.
You can make a lot of money and bless a lot of people,
but money is mission. You need money to do it, and that's okay Okay, that was like three sermons in one. What else do you want me to talk about? I'm so sorry.
Mm-hmm. Yeah
Yeah Yeah
You know what I mean? We're working so hard, let's hope.
Mm-hmm.
It's so true, and I still struggle with that, especially personally. For some reason, business finance makes sense for me way more than personal finance clicks for me. And I certainly have my own emotional piece to money. I think that's [00:47:00] why I'm so passionate is 'cause it very much resonates for me, is that I also experience so much emotion about money.
Again, call it Dave Ramsey. I think there's a lot of church culture, to your point, for better or for worse, right? I think it has protected us probably from doing a lot of things that we, we have this sense. But again, I think it's a fine line of where it can go too far,
Kaelynn Priest: Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: we feel... When, when it starts introducing shame, that's when I feel it's gone too far.
I don't think at any point God wants us to feel shame. I think that there is a healthy place for guilt, which inspires action. I talk about this a lot in my book. Guilt inspires action and wants you to repent and wants you to do better. Shame shuts you down and makes you want to hide. And I don't think that there is ever, again, church according to Joey, this is not doctrine, but I don't think there's ever a point in life where God wants you to hide.
I don't think that there's ever a point where He introduces shame. And so if financial decisions are making you [00:48:00] feel shame, I think that you've kind of gone to the wrong side there. And that is not going to actually introduce any financial improvement into ... It's actually gonna make it much, much worse.
We call it the money loop. That's the thesis of my, of my upcoming book which I'm very, very excited about for founders. But yeah, I just, I think there's a difference. And I struggle with that a lot too. I, I struggle with the idea of like when do you care too much, and when do you just say, "It's just money," you know?
When do you make fiscally responsible decisions, and when do you just let yourself, like recognize how far you've come? And for most business owners who are women, at least the ones that I work with, it's we lean so far to the extreme of we're just shaming ourselves and beating ourselves up that it's almost never
Like, I would imagine that my advice should be more of [00:49:00] like chances are you just need to chill. Chances are you need to lean more into the it's just money, you know what I mean? You're not gonna get to the other side of that spectrum anytime soon, so just take a deep breath, you know?
Kaelynn Priest: Well, and especially knowing that if you're listening to this and you are a woman, you are probably an eldest daughter. You're probably type A, so you probably need, you
could probably take that advice for more things than just the finances in your life, speaking from
Joey Albertson: Well, let's not get crazy, Caitlin. Like, I don't know if I need to chill i- in multiple places, but this is probably one of them. Yeah, I think I... My therapist says that, is, you know, you're not so far in the other direction since you're so far over here. She's like, "Chances are if you're having the inclination to say it's just money, you're probably going more towards the middle ground that is health and important."
So there's that advice.
Kaelynn Priest: I feel like that could be a, [00:50:00] a,
book. Everyone just take a deep breath. Can we loop back just a little bit? We've joked about Dave Ramsey, but like for real, for someone who's like, "Wait, catch me up to speed on your thoughts and feelings about Dave Ramsey."
Joey Albertson: It's complicated because I feel like it was an abusive relationship, so I still have some, like, need to protect him. Here's my thoughts. If you are a young baby child that doesn't know anything about money you don't know how to manage money, you don't know what a credit score is, you were never taught anything, your family didn't talk about it, Dave Ramsey is a great starting point.
It teaches you how to manage cash. It teaches you how to be responsible with your budget, live within your means. And it teaches you a lot of founding principles that I think are
I think they're good-ish. I think they're too extreme. I [00:51:00] think that he's pushed it too far which to his credit, I think that's how it got popular, is because it's a little bit extreme.
Kaelynn Priest: Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: So if you decide to go the Dave Ramsey route, I don't think that's necessarily bad, but I would warn you that like learn it and then tweak it to make it realistic and neutral rather than live it to the extreme.
Because similar to you, I fully planned on paying 20% down on my first house, and I was saving for that, and I will never forget my sister-in-law, who is a CPA, who is like a financial wizard, sat me down and was like, "Joey, you will never get into a home if you wait to put 20% down." She's like, "It's gonna be okay if you don't."
And I'm like, "Well, I don't need a credit score." She's like, "Oh, yes you do. I'm going to open you a credit card right now." And she really like helped me. And again, I think it was the fact that she told me that I was like, "Oh, okay, I can trust you," like, "You are the most financially responsible person I know."
[00:52:00] And so we went and purchased a home in 2020, and then eight months later were able to sell that home in the height of COVID and purchase our current home, and I would never be able to afford our current home to-
Kaelynn Priest: Yep.
Joey Albertson: So this whole idea of, like, saving up for 20 years to get into your first home, you might as well just get into your first home and start building equity, as long as, obviously, you can cover the mortgage, which is his point.
So again, like, he has good thoughts and ideas, and they're good building blocks. I would learn them, and then I would adapt them to reality is what I would do with Dave Ramsey. My other e- and really my huge problem with Dave Ramsey is that the shame is so heavy, so heavy. And the, his whole podcast of, like, you know, people coming in with a bunch of credit card debt, for him to just rip them to shreds makes me actually angry.
Because [00:53:00] again, what good does that do? Embarrassing people and making them feel shame does not make their financial situ- situation any better. It does not help them make better decisions, and it makes the rest of us feel like we're bad if we even approach that situation, which then, again, makes us make worse financial decisions and starts this loop of shame.
And research shows that the more shame, the less likely you are to recover financially. Again, I see a difference between shame and guilt. Obviously, there are bad financial decisions in the sense that they get you into a worse financial position. I would never recommend to have a million dollars of credit card debt by any means, because the interest payment on that is actually a joke and a waste of your money.
And like annual memberships, unless they're paying for those annual trips you're taking with the points, you're not actually earning anything for free,
Kaelynn Priest: Mm-hmm.
Joey Albertson: you know? But there are [00:54:00] absolutely ways to kind of hack the system and, and do that in a smart way. So yeah, my huge problem with Dave Ramsey, really, I mean, I don't love everything that he teaches.
I think you do need a credit score. I think debt is a tool. You know, all of those things. But my big problem is the shame that he introduces to everything and everyone. I'm like, these are just people. We don't need to shame them. It's-
Kaelynn Priest: Something that I love that you say too is like, "And it's okay if you get your $4 swig. It's gonna be okay."
Joey Albertson: If that wasn't okay then someone call the IRS on me because the IRS would do nothing. But yeah, I think that there are things in life that are not worth stress, and my Diet Coke every morning is one of them. So you can... It's okay
Kaelynn Priest: s- I saw this video that was [00:55:00] like, can call it an addiction. You can call it a commitment. For me, it's a spiritual journey." And I
Joey Albertson: It's borderline. I think it probably falls more into the addiction category than... But we're just not gonna talk about that. That's for another phase of my life when I'm ready to have an intervention. Right now it's not that
Kaelynn Priest: At this point it's a mental health,
Joey Albertson: Exactly.
Kaelynn Priest: support drink,
and it's fine, right?
Joey Albertson: Yeah. But it, it is true. Like, I think that, you know, we stress, and, and I know a lot of
I'm thinking of someone in particular, but I, I know a lot of couples have a hard time with money because one person is like, "That's fiscally irresponsible," and the other person is like, "Let me live my life." And I think that there's a difference between, you know, being financially responsible and just living your life buried in shame.
There's gotta be
a h- a better way, you know? There's a better way. So, [00:56:00] budgeting and forecasting and doing all of the things that you, quote-unquote, "should do," yes, I genuinely built a business on the fact that those things help you make better decisions. At no point will I ever introduce shame to my clients or my team or any of it, just because it doesn't do any good.
In fact, it does literally the opposite. So we're gonna break that cycle. We're gonna get rid of those accountants. They're all gonna retire, and there will be a new age. So no one has to hate their accountant anymore, and it's gonna be great.
Kaelynn Priest: I love that. If you had to pick a verse of scripture that's your, either your favorite or that captures something that you wanna share or that you just share 'cause it's on your mind, what comes to mind?
Joey Albertson: I heard you ask Tess this and I was like, "Ooh, I should prepare for this." And then I didn't. But I had a verse come to mind As my favorite. So that's the one I'm gonna share. It's [00:57:00] D&C 19:23. And it is... And the fact that I remembered the chapter and verse means that I'm supposed to share it, because I don't know where, which corner of my brain I dug it out of.
But it's the one that says, "Learn of me and listen to my words. Walk in the meekness of my spirit, and you shall have peace in me." And in my scriptures, my paper ones I have little numbers circled. Next to learn of me is number one. Listen to my words, there's a number two, and number three is walk in the meekness of my spirit, and you shall have peace in me.
If you couldn't tell by the fact that I'm an accountant, I love a process. I love a checklist. And I love that this scripture just says like, "Here are three ways to have peace in life." And then as a business owner, I think it's also kind of become especially meaningful because I, I also love continuing [00:58:00] education.
Obviously, with my lack of degree, I've had to do a lot of like dig in and you know, get my hands dirty to learn something. And it's actually one of my favorite pastimes. I'm a big reader and, and I love to learn something and figure it out for myself. And yet it wasn't until I started a business that I feel that I went through that same process with my heavenly Father of like learning who He is and what He is and what His nature is.
And then obviously with listening to Him, we talked a lot about that in this episode, of just business decisions often don't make sense And listening to and following what He suggests even when it doesn't make sense on paper really does create a sense of peace and a different version of life and of myself and of my business that I could have never imagined or created on my own.
And then the meekness in my spirit I think is, is [00:59:00] also important 'cause, like I said, I'm in this phase of, like, things are going really well, which is great, and it's so easy to slip into this, like, well, it's always gonna be great from here on out, and so I'm gonna do all these crazy, wild things because I deserve it or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And again, I think that just gets us into trouble, and just remembering, like, at no point was, should any of this be credited to me. All the decisions that have been made that have got us here are absolutely inspired, and I'm just lucky enough that I listened a few of the times that I... and with that has absolutely come a lot of peace.
The confidence in my decision-making when I rely on the Lord is through the roof. I never I very rarely feel... Again, this TikTok from this girl Barbie, she was just like, "I just, I just don't know how it's gonna work out other than I know it's gonna work out." I have [01:00:00] seen that so many times in my business, that I have such confidence that, like, things will work out that confidence, or maybe we can call it peace because of this, this verse.
Kaelynn Priest: Yeah
Joey Albertson: There's a peace that comes with that, absolutely. So there you go, Deuteronomy 18:23.
Kaelynn Priest: That was so good. That was a perfect way to capture that we talked about. But in closing, if there was one last piece of advice that you wish you could give to an LDS entrepreneur listening, what would you say?
Joey Albertson: I think I would say that whatever limitations you're putting on yourself, whether it's I don't have a degree, I am not this, you know, in my head, this, there's this, like, version of a business owner that has it all together. He's usually, like, tall, dark, and handsome, and, like, works [01:01:00] in a high-rise in New York City.
Together. That guy's been my client, and he doesn't have it all together, so forget that. You know, if that's your limitation, that you're not him, goodbye. He doesn't have it all together. We're getting rid of that. If it's that you're not profitable, or you don't have... Whatever limitation is, I don't care.
Like, whatever it is from the comparison or whatever let it go. If you shouldn't make money, if you don't have the right, or it's greedy or selfish to make money, all of those thoughts are not God. That is not God trying to keep you down. In fact, I'm a big believer that there is a new wave of LDS Christian women, that one of the tools being utilized is that we own businesses.
It's not that everybody should do it, but I think it's one of the ways, because I think it's teaching us [01:02:00] something that we are supposed to know for the next generation. I
really believe that. And so God might actually need you to start a business, even if you're scared, even if you don't have the degree, even if you don't think it's right that you should make more money, even if all those things.
I don't think that's Him telling you that. I think that's something else. I don't know. But I really think that there's a lot of people that are holding onto ideas that are good ideas because they're scared, and I'm here to tell you God needs more women in business He needs us to learn something. I don't know what it is, but I can feel him teaching it to us all the time
amen.
Kaelynn Priest: Amen.
